To be honest, although it was an excellent debate, I was so tired that I fell asleep midway. but I caught the rest this morning. If you missed, I have both the complete video and the transcript. (Thanks Nameless). In my opinion, Bernie was the clear winner, but I realize that my opinion is based on my depth of knowledge, and recognize that people, who are depending on the media for their context are likely to come away with a distorted view.
Senator Bernie Sanders, anxious that the Democratic nomination is slipping away from him, launched a series of cutting and sarcastic attacks against Hillary Clinton over trade, welfare reform and Wall Street in a debate Sunday night that often felt like a war over Bill Clinton’s legacy and the moderate Democratic policies of the 1990s.
Even Mrs. Clinton joined in the repudiation of her husband’s 1994 crime bill and 1996 welfare law, which both disproportionately harmed African-Americans. Both she and Mr. Sanders are aggressively courting black voters in Michigan, Ohio and other racially diverse states that hold primaries over the next nine days, but Mr. Sanders has an urgent need to cut into Mrs. Clinton’s support among African-Americans.
Mr. Sanders, who has fallen far behind Mrs. Clinton in their all-important race to accumulate delegates to clinch the party’s nomination, has rarely been so aggressive. He portrayed Mrs. Clinton as an unapologetic champion of free trade for much of her career, in hopes of hurting her with Rust Belt Democrats. He tied her aggressively to the North American Free Trade Agreement, Mr. Clinton’s signature trade policy, and to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, President Obama’s 12-nation trade pact, which she supported as secretary of state but then denounced as a presidential candidate.
Mr. Sanders also attacked Mrs. Clinton’s support of the federal Export-Import Bank, the credit agency that antigovernment populists on both sides have called an instrument of “corporate welfare,” and he feigned amazement when she expressed criticism of some trade deals…
Inserted from <NY Times>
Here’d the video:
Or, if you prefer, click here for the debate transcript.
OK, I told you what I think. What is your take on it?
14 Responses to “Bernie and Hillary Square Off in Flint”
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One news source had college debate coaches critique and provide winner information and both of them said Bernie won==especially the latter half and their critiques indicated he had a better handle on the institutional racism issue. They also noted her multiple violations of time and how often Anderson's follow-up question was because she had not answered the actual question posed.
My email from Team Bernie claimed vistory in Maine and in the debate at about the same time.
H/T to SoINeedAName for bringing up the "total votes" issue. Hillary has said she has gotten more total votes than Trump, or than anyone else running. The National Memo confirms that: over 4.1 million for Clinton to under 3.6 million for Trump.
They end their article by saying "But if analysts are examining the relative strengths and weaknesses of candidates, why not begin by adding up their actual vote totals?" Well, because it is comparing apples and oranges. Republican caucuses and primaries are drawing record-breaking numbers of Republican voters in every state. Our side, not so much. But those primaries and caucuses have also shown voters splitting their votes among up to thirteen candidates. This may be due to Republicans seeing huge differences among their candidates (although I don't, or at least not their platforms) while Democrats are not seeing huge differences between Bernie and hillary (although I do) and deciding they will vote for whoever gets the nomination.
But for years we have been saying our problem is that Democrats don't turn out in midterm elections, only for Presidential elections. Well, it's a Presidential election. Where is our turnout? I can't be the only person who is terrified by this. I do not have a lot of money to give, but I think what little I do have needs to go the The Progressive Turnout Project and/or other GOTV efforts rather than candidates.
Saw a Michigan poll this morning that showed that the Clinton lead over Bernie had dropped from 20 points last week to 5 points now after the debate.
A couple of observations WRT Primary/Caucus voter turnout:
[1] First and foremost, there’s been NO proven correlation between primary voter turnout and general election results. It’s what New York Times right-wing pundit David Brooks just said on “Meet the Press” yesterday, and PolitiFact studied that premise and agreed it’s TRUE.
[2] Egged on by the media’s repeatedly portraying the Democratic primary early on as a “cakewalk” for Hillary – a “Coronation” – most Democrats did not view this from the get-go as a competitive primary. The fact that it has NOT turned out that way doesn’t change the tenor of that’s how it was first portrayed. And it’s been shown that once people don’t believe their vote will have an impact, voter turnout drops off.
[3] Despite the endless “Trumpeting” of the Rethuglican’s “deep bench”, it’s clear that we Democrats have fielded a head-and-shoulders stronger “bench” with just two major candidates rather than the GOP did with SEVENTEEN (17) candidates. To that end, the overwhelming majority of Democrats would be pleased to have either Hillary or Bernie as their standard-bearer. That fact definitely makes us less likely to vote in the primary/caucus votes if we’re content with either one.
[4] When the Repugs start with SEVENTEEN candidates to pick from, then there’s something there for every whack-a-doodle. “You like anchovies on your chocolate ice cream? Well, come on out to OUR buffet, because we got that for you!” So of course it leads to greater turnout.
[5] Once the nominees have been chosen we can count on Democrats uniting together to defeat a True Evil (either Herr Drumpf or Cruz) – of that I have NO doubt.
Nameless, thank you. I feel MUCH better. (I might even say YOOGELY better.)
I hope you are right!
Well analysed and said Nameless!
Amen!
I will have to go over the transcipt when I have time. I am pressed for time right now.
I hope that one of them gets the nom and we can all start backing that one against HumptyTrump!!!
The media try to decide the winners in all our elections. They have declared that Hillary will get the nomination so often that amajority believe that. They have given Trump hours of free publicity and helped make him the front runner for the GOP. It is all about ratings!
I did not watch the entire debate (all but 20 minutes) but most definitely I felt Bernie was superior. It seemed that Clinton was frequently saying "Bernie did this" or "Bernie didn't do that". She frequently ran over and a number of times didn't answer the question, preferring her own campaign speech instead. Clinton seemed to be playing her "Grandma" card particularly around the gun issue, but it did not seem genuine.
Thanks for this TC, but also – sorry – don't have the necessary intestinal fortitude to watch any of the debates this time round, I'm too exhausted and ill – but am praying for Bernie as Hillary is in the pockets of the big corporations. Thanks for the analysis Nameless, that was most helpful.
Personally I believe that Bernie is the way forward, but that may be just because his ideas makes sense to a European Democratic Socialist. But its very hard to predict if Bernie as a president would really work. America is completely enthralled with the primaries right now, for many Europeans a spectacle that has little to do with the issues the country is facing and more to do with media ratings and entertainment, especially now Drumpf is running the this show. And it's probably going to be worse after the primaries, with a country so focused on electing a president that it seems to forget he may be running the show but not running the country on his own. Electing a president who is completely divorced from Congress, who has no backing by its majority, can only rule as a king/queen by decree, and there's only so much he or she can do as we have learned from the Obama era. If voters only concern themselves with the presidency, the next elected head of state is relatively powerless if the voters do not back him/her up with a strong Congress willing to work with him/her. If Congress isn't substantially altered, Bernie will have both the Republicans and the Democratic establishment against him because he is a Socialist, Hillary will have the Republicans against her because she's a woman, a Democrat and they still hold Benghazi against her, Drumpf will have Democrats and the Republican establishment against him and Cruz will have Democrats and any sane, non religious-extremists against him.
I hope the Democratic candidates realize very soon that there is much more at stake than who wins the election and start working on a good foundation and backing of their politics in Congress too.
Thanks all! Hugs!! Pooped!