Israel’s Foreign Minister, Avignor Lieberman has a word to describe peace that I have never heard used in that context before: FORBIDDEN! It could be that any nation that who puts a Lieberman in an exalted post, such as Foreign Minister or Chairman of Homeland Security ought to have their heads examined, but more likely, this is just the next step for the bellicose Netanyahu Regime to just say no to peace.
Israel’s foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, said today that a peace deal with the Palestinians is impossible and that Israel should pursue a lesser deal instead, an idea the Palestinians swiftly rejected.
The latest diplomatic spat came as violence along the Israel-Gaza border simmered. After days of accelerated Palestinian rocket attacks on southern Israel and Israeli airstrikes in response, Israeli soldiers killed two Palestinians early today.
Lieberman told Israeli diplomats that instead of a full peace deal, Israel should seek a long-term, interim agreement on security and economic matters. Palestinians have consistently rejected that approach.
"It’s not only that it is impossible" to reach an overall agreement, he said. "It is simply forbidden."… [emphasis added]
Inserted from <Common Dreams>
Lieberman’s rationale is that the government of Gaza is illegitimate, because there have been no free elections for that region. He conveniently ignores the elections in which the Palestinian people chose the Hamas party, for good or ill, over Fatah. I do not support Hamas, but I do support the right of Palestinians to choose their own government. If anything, the Fatah government of the West Bank is illegitimate, because their election did not include Gaza residents. Lieberman’s lie does not prove out.
The proposal for a long-term interim agreement has one purpose, in my opinion. While such an agreement is in effect, Israel would continually build on Palestinian land until their treaty obligation to a two state solution is mute.
As long as the US government continues to support a government in Israel that pursues such a policy, our government makes us a party to their war crimes.
18 Responses to “Israel: Just Say No to Peace”
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
I stand with Jimmy Carter and Norman Finkelstein (himself a Jew whose parents both survived Nazi concentration camps) in calling on the Israelis to STOP their immoral persecution against the Palestinian people! That Israel has the right to existence cannot be denied, but their right to existence does NOT allow them to trample all over the Palestinians!
I agree.
Exactly.Well written,TC and well put,Jack.
It amazes me that Israel is the aggressor here, yet they always play the victim and our media goes along with it.
And the chutzpah of an aggressor nation – which refuses to delineate its borders – to demand the people whose lands they took recognize its right to exist?
No other people on earth have been asked that, no other nation has made that demand. Nations all the time recognize each other, no one is told they have to acknowledge a right to exist. WTF does that even mean? Does the US recognize any nations right to exist? No. We establish relations as all nations do. No nation specifically demands other nations recognize their right to exist. Only Israel does this,and it demands it of the people whose land it now occupies.
Incredible that we do not recognize the Israelis right to go the F**K back to Europe where they belong and allow the indigenous inhabitants to have their land back.
Oso, I understand a certain amount of paranoia from Jews, because no nation would take them in prior to WWII. I consider both Jews and Palestinians legitimate inhabitants of the land.
TC, I certainly consider Arab Jews legitimate inhabitants, same as Arab Christians and Arab Muslims. But for Ashkenazi European Jews to claim Palestine as theirs is wrong-they are Jewish by religion, not Palestinian by race. Not trying to be funny, but it’s analogous to me as a Catholic claiming I have a right to land in Italy due to my Catholicism.
Oso, some European Jews are descendants of the Jews dispersed by Rome in 70 AD.
All I can say is create a Palestinian state. Carve it from the land the Israelis stole from the Palestinians 60 years ago and make sure that when the lines are drawn on the map that Jerusalem like Rome becomes and independent nation ruled by a triumvirate of Jew Muslim and Christian scholars. and that both nations have equal access to the sea. We could do this wit the stroke of a pen. But never will because there has never been an American with balls enough to make it haooen.
Helen Thomas should be the first Palestinian Secretary of State
Big props to you TWM. What you wrote would effectively bring peace to the Middle East, or go a long way towards the achievement of it.
I concur.
I fear I will be stoned.
With respect to all of you wrong people, some of whom I admire greatly, the idea of a triumvirate is not tenable. Also, the “Jews” did not steal the land of Palestine from the Palestinians in 1948, nor did they steal it from them in 1967. Granted, they did take it without their permission.
If you go back in time, the ancestors of the Jewish people have a historical claim to Israel (some of the time). Rome also has a historical claim, as do the Turks, as do other Middle Eastern peoples. Everyone has lived there some time or another. In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s the area was no man’s land or every man’s land. People migrated there, Arabs and Jews, to take advantage of virtually free land or to work port jobs provided by the British and others controlling the Mediterranean Sea. Ancient historical claims on all sides are little more than a justification for grabbing the land. Descendents of the British do not have any claim to an ounce of dirt in the U.S. and yet, here we are, self-righteously denouncing Israel with our feet propped up, lounging in our ill-gotten booty. I do not side with the Jewish people in their historical claims to Israel, though I easily could, and I do not side with the bands of non Jewish Middle Eastern people either.
It is hard to give the “Palestinian People” the land of their heritage, because there is no specific heritage. “The Palestinians” is a term used to mean the non Jewish Middle Eastern immigrates to the no man’s land we call Palestine.
I appreciate their desire and need for autonomy. The Jewish people had been virtually pushed off the planet by the Nazi’s and by others before them, and were basically told they could exist nowhere. When the Arabs who had settled in what we now call Palestine noticed that the numbers of Jews were increasing there, they too pushed them back to the sea. Israel did not take the “Land of Palestine” from the “Palestinians,” as these people never controlled it. The Jordanians and other Middle Eastern entities had seized control of most of it and Britain controlled the remainder. The Palestinians are Syrians, Jordanians, Iraqis, oh, and Jews (just throwing that in there for those of you who don’t know what a Palestinian is, or those of you who bought into Yasser Arafat’s political rhetoric). The Palestinian cultural heritage is not at risk. The Palestinians, per se, have no specific centuries old identity. If they were Syrians, that land, and its heritage, survives; if they were Iraqis, that land and its heritage survives. Unlike the “Palestinian people,” whatever that means, the Jewish people are not a band of Middle Eastern Bedouins assembled from other similar cultures.
I do not mean to trivialize the Palestinian’s plight. They are in the land of Palestine and they want to stay and they want to be autonomous, a privilege they have never had since they defected from their various source countries. But Israel did not occupy the Palestinian nation. There was no such thing. In 1948, they were granted a small piece of land in the only place a Jewish nation had ever stood. They have no history as a nation outside that of Palestine. The body legalizing this return of this Jewish nation did so, without just authority, for sure. There is no doubt in my mind about that. They did not, however, overlay one country on another, as Yasser Arafat taught the world to believe.
The Palestinians had no great love for their former Jordanian masters either. They only united with them in the common cause of the expulsion of the Jewish people, whom they hated even more than the they hated the Jordanians. When Israel declared independence, it was a tiny spec on the map. It is still tiny, still a spec, but a little larger, maybe a crumb now, because Middle Eastern armies keep invading it, and losing territory as they flee in defeat. Every time a group of nations gain free passage through some territory they control to annihilate all Jews from the planet, they risk losing more of the colonies they fought so hard to conquer. And when this happens, Israel sometimes replaces their occupation with its own and when they do, some Jews welcome themselves back to the home their great grandfather’s were driven out of long ago. As they settle back in, they are cast as barbarians by the media: once again, they are brutalizing an innocent people, unprovoked.
Israel continues its imperialistic mission to survive. They must be stopped! To Israel the Palestinian problem seems difficult, with no clear answer, and no fair solution. I am in America, though, and my borders are secure, my life cushy. From this distance, the matter is simple. Israel, return all the lands to their former hosts. Put their tanks back along your border. Arm their missiles and aim them back at the heart of your Capitol, just as you found them. The persecuted Palestinians have been through enough already! Put their gods back in your temple and prepare to swim off your crumb of ground and back into obscurity where those of us with secure nations have always known you belong.
Welcome John! 🙂
To avoid being stoned, don’t do dope. 😉
I acknowledge that who is squatting on it is the biggest factor in determining the possession of land, but it is an issue that both sides claim, so we must deal with it. Some of the Jews are descended from Jews that lived in Israel at the time Rome expelled them in 70 AD. Some of the Palestinians have lived in the land for many generations as well. On that basis, I think both groups have a legitimate claim to a homeland in Palestine. More important, the Oslo Accords guarantee a two state solution. Israel is violating that treaty.
I agree with this:
I think both groups have a legitimate claim to a homeland in Palestine.
I do not agree that this is a black and white issue, or that you can honor an imprecise treaty that is signed without a cessation of hostilities.
Not to mention the fact that the issue of Israeli security is still getting it my ignored.
The discussion could go on forever, but my real point is that it is not a black and white issue with a villain needlessly oppressing indigenous people. It is a fight for survival of a people (Israel) against a group of immigrants (Palestine). The heritage of the “Palestinian” people will not cease to exist unless Israel replaces the war machines it removed in 1967. However, if they do anything that allows those war machines to be re-created and the next Six Day War works, there will not be another Israeli nation to protest or step in. Israel has a very solid argument for its position, which is all but summarily dismissed.
Additionally, the international community and America specifically would apply more pressure on Israel in favor of the Palestinian plight if the Palestinians would stop making war in the form of terrorism while they are asking for Israel to jeopardize its future exists in deference to the Palestinian desire for autonomy. Why didn’t Yasser Arafat declare independence against the Jordanians? Why was there a such thing as the plight Palestinian people, only after Israel had control?
I am not even saying I would not support the Two State Solution, if I had to decide. I disagree that most of the inhabitants of the land we now call Palestine have long heritage there, but the issue is mostly irrelevant to me, so I will not challenge it. I am saying that real legitimate facts are summarily dismissed as Israel is mis-cast as a heartless villain. A fight for survival is neither imperialistic nor villainous. We have to acknowledge this, and address it, before our arguments make sense.
I like your site and mostly your insight. This particular issue is one that I have intermittently followed since the Night Line week long analysis in the 80’s. Back then it was a gray area, but now it is simple. Why? Politics (That is a subject for another long post, though).
While I agree that Palestinians have committed terrorists acts against Israel, when you compare the injuries and fatalities on both sides and add in the living conditions in Gaza enforced by Israel’s military might, it is plain to see where the balance of terror lies. Also, bear in mind that many of the people in Israel’s current government were active terrorists during the British occupation. Nevertheless, I agree that Israel has a right to exist in peace and security within her own borders. My objection is only to the role the current government has taken to prevent the establishment of borders for a Palestinian state, where those people have a right to live in peace and security behind their own borders. There are villains on both sides.
Thanks for the complement. I try to maintain an atmosphere where people can disagree respectfully without the conversation degenerating into personal attack
I would rather chew on rusty nails than keep this going, but, Israel is not a terrorist nation. They use force and stern measures to resist terror. Palestinians do not practice civil disobedience. They make war. The PLO taught the Palestinians to make war, so when the Israelis responded, they would have something to use in the PLO media campaign.
Israel did not seek to oppress the Palestinians. It did not seek to curtail their movement or to pose implicit permanent sanctions against them, leaving them in squalor. Every time Israel relaxes its measures, something else blows up. That is a tactic the Palestinians use to gain sympathy. Force Israel to react, so you can publicize your maltreatment. That the tactic is used is no surprise. What amazes me is that it is so effective.
One more thing, no Israeli administration, including Rabin’s, ever wanted a two state solution. Some feel as they must pretend to for political reasons. That solution may well be the death of Israel in the long run. Israel’s military might is the only think that stopped the Six Day War from resurfacing.
At this point, I would like to agree to disagree. I always need the last word. You are making it difficult.
Israel aside, John. Terrorism is just a word we use to describe unconventional warfare we oppose. When the US sponsors terrorists we call them ‘freedom fighters’. Also, nobody can force anyone to react, Israel chooses her own responses. Palestinian militants take advantage of Israel’s overreactions to gain sympathy, and it works because Israel’s chosen response to a rocket attack that kills one is to carpet bomb civilian targets killing and injuring hundreds. If Israel’s responses were more measured and appropriate, perhaps militants would abandon the rocket attacks, because then Israel would not be seen as the greater aggressor.
I will agree to disagree, but because it is my policy here to respect readers by replying to every comment, the last word is hard to find here. 😉
OK, it seemed like we were at an impasse, so I was going to stop responding. However, I have a solution! Can you respond to this comment and the one I will make later, the next one. Then you will not have neglected a response to a comment, and I will still get the last word. Compromise, my friend. Compromise.
I’m not sure I understand what yoi mean, but here is a response.
It has been a pleasure discussing this issue with you, sir. No response needed.